India can replace China as semiconductors manufacturer, says Taiwan FM Joseph Wu

The Taiwan foreign minister Joseph Wu has expressed his optimism that India could replace China as the major semiconductor manufacturer as " China may not be a reliable partner in high tech production". The comments come even as Taiwan company PSMC and Tata Group have come together for India's first semiconductor fab in Gujarat's Dholera. Speaking to our diplomatic correspondent Sidhant Sibal from Taipei, the Taiwanese Foreign Minister also warned of disinformation campaigns ahead of the Indian election. He said, "India is also going through an election and I'm sure the Chinese would like to create this open environment to shape the minds of the Indian people".

India, Taiwan have seen high level developments, including signing of a mobility pact. Under the mobility pact, Indian workers can travel to Taiwan which can boost the self ruled island's economy. Taiwan is also working on opening up its office in Mumbai. 

The foreign minister also spoke on the visit of Taiwan's former President Ma's visit to Beijing. He said, "And most of the people here in Taiwan who like to maintain the status quo across the Taiwan Strait, it's about 80% or more and those who would advocate the lines advocated by former president Ma is in a very small minority, and those who would advocate to change the status quo in a rapid way to defy Taiwan and China is also a small minority". Full interview.

Siddhant Sibbal: How do you see India, Taiwan ties

Joseph Wu: Thank you very much Mr Sibal, delighted to be on your show. The relations between Taiwan and India have been growing tremendously in every aspect. For instance, cultural aspects, we had Diwali celebrations, or Holi celebrations. I personally have been in those celebrations. Indian movies have been very popular in Taiwan. Some of the most recent movies have been very-very popular. I have watched those movies. In economic areas, the trade volume has surpassed 8 billion US dollars. And this is a tremendous amount of trading between Taiwan and India. And in terms of high tech cooperation, it is also the same. Taiwanese high tech company PSMC has already cooperated with Tata electronics and they will set up semiconductor production in India. And I think this is going to be a tremendous step forward in the economic cooperation between Taiwan and India. And of course, the Indian government has been paying more attention to this area as well. For instance, Prime Minister Modi has commented on his Twitter a couple of times in the last two months or so, commented on Taiwan The first was when the PSMC and Tata signed the agreement, starting to do operation in India and the second time was he commented on the earthquake in Taiwan and showed his sympathy and condolences and all these highly appreciated here in Taiwan and the Indian government has also been commenting that the peace and stability over the Taiwan Strait is very important, and that wins the hearts and minds of the Taiwanese people. So in a nutshell, the relations between Taiwan and India are very warm, and it's getting better and better.

Siddhant Sibbal: You mentioned about the Indian Prime Minister sending his condolences after the earthquake we saw in Taiwan. So essentially how do you see the mentioning the Taiwan and sending condolences directly to the people of Taiwan by the Indian leadership?
Joseph Wu: People here, our heartfelt, we are very touched by Prime Minister Modi even though he's running for election right now. He's supposed to be very busy, but it still takes time to tweet about the earthquake here in Taiwan sending condolences and sympathy and support for the countless people at this very difficult time. And the President over here, the prime minister or our vice president, who is our president -elect and also the Ministry of Foreign Affairs, are re-tweeted to show our appreciation to Prime Minister Modi for showing his support for Taiwan.

Siddhant Sibal: Semiconductor is another area of convergence between the two sides. We have already directly mentioned it in your initial statement. But how do you see the convergence growing and Taiwanese companies coming to India and helping India build its own capacity in the semiconductor space?

Joseph Wu: I think this is very important, people understand that Taiwan is a major producer of semiconductor products. We produce about 90% off the highest end of the semiconductor chips. But it is still not enough to meet the demand of the international community. And at the same time, China has also been producing semiconductors. But people started to understand that China may not be a reliable partner in high tech production, and therefore people are looking for an alternative and when people see India, which is a democracy, which is a reliable partner, and which also provides abundance of skilled engineers and laborers. So making investment in India or entering into cooperation with Indian electronics or manufacturing becomes a viable option. So this starts a new trend. The Taiwan Semiconductor Industry starts working with Indian companies to make sure that the production of semiconductor manufacturing products can be set up in India, to make India a replacement of China in a sometimes in the near future, and we will continue to work together with the Indian government and Indian industries to make sure that this process is smooth.

Siddhant Sibal: When will Taiwan open its office in Mumbai, and when will the mobility pact be implemented.. 

Joseph Wu: This is our first office in Mumbai. We have already sent our officials to Mumbai already and they've been making contacts with the people, government officials and also the businessmen over there. They started their work already, but the office is in the process of interior decoration. And I believe that in the second half of the year, the office will be ready to operate but our people are already there. And we have a high hope of connecting Taiwan was the area, either in the business context or other types of contests. And we also have our tourism bureau setting up this operation in Bombay already. So we hope we can attract more Indians to come over to Taiwan or to promote Taiwanese people traveling to Mumbai for all kinds of purposes. And another issue you mentioned is about the mobility agreement with each other. You probably know that Taiwan is still a rapidly growing economy. And under these circumstances, we need skilled laborers. We need a lot of people to fill all kinds of vacancies and right now we still have shortages, and at the same time, India is a huge country. India can provide a lot of skilled laborers or workforces to fulfil Taiwan's need, and we have already signed an agreement with each other and therefore, we will try to encourage our companies here in Taiwan, our industries here in Taiwan, to match their needs with the Indian counterparts so that we can start having more Indians to come over to Taiwan, either to work over here, or to enjoy their life here and we will be very happy if more Indians make Taiwan as home. Currently, we have close to 2700 Indians  working in Taiwan. And we also have about 500 post-doc positions available to Indians. We already have some Indian communities here in Taiwan, they are very active. They are so active that we call them unofficial ambassadors to Taiwan. So Taiwan's population is very welcoming to the Indians who will come to Taiwan to find Taiwan their second home, and we'll continue to work in that regard to get more Indians coming over here. So the mobility pact is going to have that purpose.

Sidhant Sibal:  So let me just go to the other aspects of the Indo Pacific. We've already talked about Taiwan and India. What's the situation like in the Taiwan Strait, if you can give us your perspective, how volatile the situation is because that is a concerning development.

Joseph Wu: The situation is, as you say, the Chinese have been putting pressure on Taiwan. They conduct military exercises around Taiwan very often. And as we speak right now the Chinese are flying sorties and have their warships conducting exercises not far from Taiwan, and also they are also engaging in economic pressure against Taiwan and they also do something that we call hybrid warfare, disinformation campaign and infiltration into Taiwan societies, diplomatic isolation attempts, etc. But these have been going on for quite some time, even though the Chinese have been intensifying their pressure against Taiwan. But we have been able to maintain peace and stability in this area in relative terms. Several things we are adopting, right at this point, the first is our policy, our policy in order for us to be able to maintain peace and stability in this area. The government has been pursuing a very responsible , very moderate policy toward China or toward other members of the international community. And at the same time, we are trying to strengthen our defense capabilities to deter the Chinese from thinking about using force against Taiwan and at the same time, the international community especially the major democracies around the world also understand any conflict involving Taiwan is going to be a disaster for the rest of the world. So they're trying to posture in this region, trying to build new coalition's or new alliance systems. Last year, there was a new alliance system. We called it Camp David Alliance in between the United States, Japan and South Korea. And what's happening right now is that the United States, Japan and the Philippines are also building up their security cooperation. Also AUKUS, they're also strengthening their security presence in this region. We all understand that in order to deter the Chinese from thinking about using force against Taiwan, We need to be able to deter the Chinese and this is what we have been doing. And because of the effort of the Taiwanese government and also the major democratic partners, we should be able to maintain peace in this region. And if you look at major announcements from major gathering gatherings like what's happening in Washington, DC right now, they all talk about the importance of peace and stability over the Taiwan Strait. And they say that peace and stability over the Taiwan Strait is an indispensable element of global security and prosperity. And this has become an international consensus that we need to maintain peace and stability in this region.

Sidhant Sibal: So we have seen a visit of the former Taiwanese president to Beijing where he met the Chinese president. We have seen comments by President Xi on the reunion issue, how Taiwan views it and looking at it.

Joseph Wu: Thank you very much for mentioning this issue. It has to come back to the basics. The basics is that Taiwan is a democracy. And we allow all kinds of activities or all kinds of comments to be made here in Taiwan. Taiwan is just as democratic as India. And of course in India, there are all kinds of people, all kinds of advocacies and all kinds of comments come in on politics or on international relations. And these should also be respected as part of Taiwan's democracy, but since Taiwan is a democracy, and therefore, we need to gauge what kind of comments are getting the majority of the public opinion. And we do public opinion surveys here in Taiwan all the time. And most of the people here in Taiwan who like to maintain the status quo across the Taiwan Strait, it's about 80% or more and those who would advocate the lies advocated by former president Ma is in a very small minority, and those who would advocate to change the status quo in a rapid way to defy Taiwan and China is also a small minority. So the absolute majority of the people here in Taiwan would like to maintain the status quo across the Taiwan Strait. So that is the way we look at the former president of Ma's visit to China. And when the Chinese government says that Taiwan has to unify with China, the majority of the people here do not see it that way. We want to maintain the status quo and the status quo is that Taiwan is not run by the PRC and we don't want to see a day that the authoritarian China or communist China is going to have its jurisdiction over Taiwan. That is not what we are going to accept.

Sidhant Sibal: And there is a trilateral also happening in Washington in Japan, Philippines and US Trilateral. We have seen comments or perhaps more aggressive actions coming from North Korea as well. What do you make of these meetings and the stance coming from North Korea?

Joseph Wu:  If you look at the broader perspective, the international situation that we see in the geostrategic situation is that democracies around the world are more united than before in dealing with a united authoritarian bloc, if you look at the cooperation between Russia and China. Aligning with China and Russia is North Korea and Iran and especially North Korea. They've been testing their missiles, firing their rockets to intimidate other countries in this region. And that is wrecking peace and stability in this region. And at the same time, North Korea has been providing a lot of ammunition to Russia, for Russia to continue its aggression against Ukraine. So these authoritarian forces are coming together, and they are in a very rapid mode of expansion. And if you look at China's expansionism in this part of the world, in the East China Sea, and they are threatening Taiwan in the Taiwan Strait. And they are also causing a lot of trouble in the South China Sea and this is China. It's also the problem of Chinese expansionism in the Pacific. And it's not just in the Pacific. If you look at the Indian Ocean I'm sure this is a region our Indian friends care a lot more about. Look at those dots. China has been trying to connect the ports in Myanmar, in Pakistan, in Bangladesh, in Sri Lanka and also in Djibouti. China calls it their strategy of pearl string, or string of pearls strategy. And this is making the Chinese presence in the Indian Ocean more visible than ever, and if the Chinese threat is not just coming from the north, but it's gradually coming from the south. I'm sure our Indian friends know that this is something that we have to deal with. But fortunately, India is already a part of the Quad. And democracies are coming closer to each other than ever. And what's taking place right now in Washington DC, is that the United States, Japan and the Philippines are coming together to deal with the expansionism of the PRC. And this is something not just the United States, Japan and the Philippines. There are other countries that are also coming closer to each other to deal with the expansion of authoritarianism presented by China. For instance, the UK, Canada and some other major European countries are also paying attention to the peace and stability in this part of the world. They would like to conduct freedom of navigation operations in the South China Sea or in the Taiwan Strait, to make sure that they will make it known to the Chinese leaders that they will not tolerate any action to destabilize the region.

Sidhant Sibal: Coming back to the India aspect of the relationship, a new government will be taking charge very soon in Taiwan. Have you invited India or Indian representatives to be present at the oath taking ceremony that will take place in Taiwan?

Joseph Wu: We are going to have the inauguration in May. But we also understand that during this period of time India is running on national election day. We know that you are very busy. You're busy over the election. So we did not make a special invitation to our Indian friends to come over during this period of time. But of course you have ITA or the Indian Taipei Association, which represent the Indian government and the head of the ITA will be cordially invited to take part in our inauguration. And we hope that anyone who is watching Taiwan closely can enjoy that moment of a peaceful transfer of power in Taiwan. And that will be a moment of joy for Taiwan and also for democracy.

Sidhant Sibal: Regarding the mobility pact, we saw certain comments emerging from Taiwan. We saw certain social media posts as well, which are seen as connected to Chinese propaganda. If we can perhaps give you a perspective on that.

Joseph Wu:  Yes, as I said earlier, the mobility pact is a very good agreement between Taiwan and India because India has a lot of very good workers to work overseas, but at the same time, Taiwan needs more workers to come in. And therefore that is a mutually beneficial type of agreement, and all the government officials here welcome but at the same time, the Chinese government would like to see that any closer relationship between Taiwan and India is something that they don't want to see. So they unleashed some disinformation campaigns against Taiwan. Our security apparatus detected that there were about 1000 new accounts that started releasing all kinds of hatred against the Indians or those comments that would create trouble in between Taiwan and India. But fortunately, the government officials together with some experts here in Taiwan are telling the people that these are fabricated by the Chinese government. And I think the majority of the people believe that those comments are not fair to India, and it's also not good for Taiwan. So we quickly quiet down those kinds of vicious attacks against this mobility pact. And at the same time, we also try to explain to the Indian friends that those comments are not made by the Taiwanese people. They are fabricated by the Chinese government. And I think our Indian friends understand that now. And talking about disinformation campaigns or election interference. We also went through a democratic election in January this year. And there's a lot of interference efforts by the PRC to try to shape the results of the election over here. And disinformation campaigns are certainly one of them. But we have been going through a lot of these kinds of vicious attacks already and therefore, you know, we gain some experience. There's a good saying that whatever doesn't kill you will make you stronger. And that is the case of Taiwan. And because we have learned a thing or two over the election interference or disinformation campaign, cognitive warfare, information manipulation, things like that. And at the same time, India is also going through an election and I'm sure the Chinese would like to create this open environment to shape the minds of the Indian people. In that sense. Maybe it will be good for the two countries to think about possible cooperation in this area so that we can strengthen against the disinformation campaign initiated by the PRC.

Sidhant Sibal: India recently announced its third highest civilian award to a Taiwanese national. How do you see this gesture by the Indian government to award one the highest awards to the Taiwanese Tycoon?

Joseph Wu:  Yes, this is very good. And this is a recognition of Taiwanese businessmen and his contribution to Indian economic development. We treasure that and we would like to use it as an example of Indian society, the Indian government welcoming Taiwan's business persons. India is actually a very welcoming society to Taiwan's investment. It will use that to encourage more Taiwanese businessmen to look at India as a very good alternative to the PRC.

Sidhant Sibal:  How do you perhaps preempt a reaction given that it is likely, and it is definite that the Chinese Embassy here in Delhi will be sharply reacting, so anything you would like to react before they react to your interview with us?

Joseph Wu:  Well, let me tell you some of my personal experiences. The Chinese government has already sanctioned me and they not only sanction me, but they sanction me as one of the first 3 people in Taiwan but it may be more popular. So don't be afraid of the Chinese criticism or reactions or protest. Because when you feel that the Chinese are somehow upset, that only proves one thing: that you are doing the right thing. So continue to do it and you will feel that the Chinese criticism is unwarranted and continue to speak with Taiwan to make sure that we understand each other and we can continue to strengthen our people to people ties.