The Bill, amendments are not against farmers: Nitin Gadkari

The BJP made an amendment in the 2013 land acquisition Act by removing the requirement of consent by 70% farmers and a social impact study. Has it made these changes to suit land grabbing mafias?
We made five amendments in all and these are not against farmers. If we acquire land for rural infrastructure, defence and security purposes, we do not need to obtain consent. The amendments were made to provide low-cost and affordable housing to the poor and develop irrigation, in which Maharashtra is lagging.
If 80% of the people decide they do not want a dam, then development for irrigation will stagnate in state. Seventy per cent of rainwater directly goes to the sea, while 15% percolates in the surrounding land and 15% is stored into dams and small lakes. If we wait for 70% consent, we won't be able to construct dams, lay down electric cables and railway lines. How then can we develop our country?

In the earlier land acquisition Bill, land could be acquired by private companies. This term has been changed to private entities. What is the difference? The opposition alleges that the government is simply helping those who made the BJP win the elections.
That is a good question. A copy of the letter from the president is in my hand. Could you show me where the term private entities is used? We have not alluded to private colleges, hospitals, universities and medical colleges in the land acquisition ordinance at all.

As for the opposition's allegation, during the Congress-led UPA government, the allotment of coal mines to big corporates and business houses was not in accordance to social impact and adherence clauses. What about that? Not to mention that the CAG had then pointed out a Rs1.88 lakh crore worth scam. While we have auctioned only 20 mines, we have followed the proper procedure and helped the government earn Rs20 lakh crore.

Don't you think people should have the right to take decisions on development and changes in infrastructure?
In Nagpur, we have proposed a Metro service. It will reduce traffic and accidents. If people whose houses encroach on roads say they won't give up their homes, how can the Metro be built? This will hamper building highways, providing electricity and developing railway lines.

Often in the past, project-affected people (PAPs) were not compensated on time. In some areas in Maharashtra, entire villages got submerged for the building of dams. For instance, PAPs of the Koyana dam are still on the road. How can they trust your government? In 2013, if land was being used for two variety of crops it could not be acquired. Your ordinance allows the land-grabber to acquire such irrigated and fertile lands. Why is that?
Suppose we get a 15km stretch of which three acres is irrigated and there's a railway line passing through. For those three acres, would we change railway tracks and electrical lines? It is true that some have not yet received compensation in lieu of their land. That will be looked into. All such cases should be addressed. Take Nagpur for example. The output from Nagpur–WCL is Rs35 lakh million tonnes. We compensated 2,000 farmers, paying them four times that of market rates. We recently started three mines with the help of union coal minister Piyush Goyal. Our government has decided to open 25 coal mines and, within a year, we will get 100 million tonnes of output, because of which 50,000-60,000 unemployed youths from Vidarbha will get jobs. Not a single farmer is unhappy.

As a responsible minister, can you guarantee that henceforth no one will be deprived of compensations and ignored with respect to rehabilitation?
We will compensate promptly. But there are cases where there are family disputes over land on title deeds and ownership and involving courts. In such cases, obviously, compensation will be delayed. In Nagpur and Bhandara, several crores of rupees were distributed to people. In the last 50 years, there were no expansion of coal mines. Farmers are now offering their land. This led to 25 new mines recently; every month, we are opening new mines. They get money. We never acquire land without giving monetary compensation.

If you pre-decide the cost of land, it would go to the likes of Ambanis and Adanis. There should be auctions to benefit agriculturists. Don't you think so?
We have decided to construct the Gosikhurd dam. The cost of this dam was Rs360 crore, now it has become Rs14,000 crore. We cannot put 3,000 acres of dam land up for auction. It is very difficult. Also, auctioning land is not the solution, it won't help develop dams, construct roads, houses for the poor and lay down railway lines. The law will not be used for individual, private, and corporate interests. We will use the law for public interest only.

You told us that auctioning cannot be done. Employment for the affected farmers will be given besides compensations. But if the government or promoters fail to develop the acquired land within five years from the date of acquisition, then the land should be returned to the original owner. However, there's no such clause, is there?
We have decided to develop Nagpur to Wardha railway line, and in the first phase, we will get 13 kilometres, with forest land in between. If the forest department does not give permission for five years, should we return the land? The new amendment says the land will be kept for five years or till the project is completed. When I constructed the Bandra-Worli Sea Link and developed the Mumbai-Pune Expressway, Nana Chudasma and actor Amitabh Bachchan met me and congratulated me on the good work. But there were also 125 writ petitions filed in court on this. We had to engage 40 advocates for the same. Should I concentrate on development or court cases? Finally, Nana Chudasama filed a PIL and intervened. In our country no one tells you to work, they only tell you to stop work.

There is a possibility of corruption with contractors and government officers. Should they go scot-free?
Anyone can drag the government to court. Stern action will be taken against the corrupt. There is false propaganda against our ordinance. Everyone should stop playing development politics. All political parties should come together for the country's development. In Haryana, during the UPA regime, land was acquired at Rs10 per acre and then sold for Rs10 crore per acre. Robert Vadra got a huge chunk of land because of this. But at that time no social impact study was done or any consent clause implemented.

All this is known. Will you allow land to be acquired for private schools and hospitals?
No, we cannot acquire land for private schools, colleges, universities, hospitals and engineering colleges. No private educational institute will get land from acquired land. They have to buy it in the open market for non-agriculture use. The land acquisition Act does not apply to them.

If land that is vital to supplying foodgrains is acquired, there will be a shortage of grains. How do you balance agriculture with development?
We will avoid acquiring irrigated land. To make an airstrip for the Nagpur airport we needed six acres, three of which was irrigated. We are clear that if more land is irrigated it will not be acquired.

Congress vice president Rahul Gandhi is holding a farmers' rally on Sunday. Social activist Anna Hazare is also against the amendments in the Bill, as are the Shiv Sena and the NCP. Even president Pranab Mukherjee has said that the government can't be run on issuing ordinances regularly. How are you going to counter this?
There are many people who cannot digest the fact that the BJP is ruling the country and Narendra Modi is the prime minister. In the Janata Pariwar, it's all in the family and they supposedly venerate Dr Lohia. Have you have see my son in politics? I have told them that as long as I am in politics, my family will not be. All those against us are coming together for their own selfish interests.