Every strong woman is a witch says Ipsita Roy-Chakraverti

What was the first encounter, rather, that one experience that ignited your interest in the unknown?
One of my first encounters with the supernatural, or rather the psychic, happened when I was hardly more than a child — perhaps about 10 years old. My father was posted in Montreal, Canada, as India's Permanent Representative on the Council of the International Civil Aviation Organization. It was a diplomatic posting. One winter, we had an important visitor for dinner at home. It was the celebrated scientist Dr Homi Bhabha. Even though I was so young, I recognised the fact that here was someone very special, and over dinner, I kept gazing at this remarkable man. Suddenly it seemed as if his face faded from before my eyes and I saw another face superimposed on his. I heard a name which was not known to me. I was confused. I described this as best I could to Dr Bhabha later on. It turned out that I had seen Heinrich Hertz, a German physicist, a pioneer in establishing the existence of electromagnetic radiation. I did not understand much of what was happening and what I had seen, but I must say Dr Bhabha was understanding and very serious about the phenomenon. I think that was one of my first experiences of the supernatural.
In the later years, I thought of how strange it was that a man of orthodox science should have had this experience with the mystical, should have understood it, accepted it and explained it to a child.

Your time in Canada was your stepping stone into Wicca. Although you hail from a liberal family, did you face any opposition from your parents?
No, I did not face any opposition since the entire learning process, the background and the people connected with the society I was attached to in the Laurentians were completely up front and recognised members of society. Some were professionals, a few were professors, and we even had a member from show business. But I think the real reason why my parents did not object was because they realised that here was a quest for genuine knowledge. Of course, I realised later that it showed a lot of liberal thinking on my father's part since he was officially so much a part of the Establishment. But I must say the diplomatic community in Montreal was impressed — and I expect the Indian Government was proud. My mother could have objected because she was more traditional in her views, having come from the blue-blooded stock of Bengal aristocracy. But she is the one who told me that all was well as long as nobody was hurt. She encouraged me to open up new avenues and ways of thinking for women in India. I understand now that she was a true feminist.

You chose Wicca over Kabbalah and Taoism when you completed your course. What drew you to it more than the others?
I think it was destiny which brought me to Wicca. I did not choose it. Wicca chose me.

What sets Indian Wicca apart from Wicca elsewhere?
Perhaps the belief is the same. The names and approach might be different. For example, what the West might call a Wiccan, Tibetan Buddhism would call the 'khandroma', a female spirit and a wisdom queen. She also moves in the sky or space. Could she be something like a flying witch? The Persians call her 'Peri', very akin to Bengal's 'Pori' or fairy. The Tibetan dakini appears in the Vajrayana tradition and is actually a protectress of the dharma — something like a female deity. The malefic aspect of the daiyini, which is often there in Indian (and Bollywood) lore, is certainly not present there. In Hindu legend, including in the Bhagwat Purana, Brahma Purana and Markhandeya Purana, the dakini makes her appearance but unfortunately, she does not have the divine stature that Buddhism or Wicca have given her.
Perhaps this speaks a lot about our Indian attitude towards women. However, the ancient concept of the dakini was very woman-friendly. From the 9th to the 13th centuries in India, the cult of the dakini was akin to the cult of the yoginis. In fact in India, we have eight yogini temples scattered across the country. One could call them true Wiccan shrines. They have no roofs and it is said that they were built such that the dakini could fly into the sky without hindrance.

And what sets Wicca apart from other forms of witchcraft and Paganism?
The Oxford English Dictionary tells us that witchcraft comes from the old English word wiccecraeft, which literally means the art or skill of a witch (or the Wiccan who is the wise one). In medieval Europe, the negative aspect came much later, when organised religion and men found the Wiccan becoming too powerful in her own right and came down on her with the Inquisitions.
Wicca and witchcraft are the same. Witchcraft unfortunately has been given a bad name by distorting its aims and intentions.

Can you give us a crash course on the differences between a mohini, shakini and a dakini in Indian lore? Also, what Indian ghosts (eg: nishis, brahmodoityas, baaks, etc.) are considered malevolent and benevolent?
In Hindu Tantra, dakini, shakini, kakini, kamini or mohini are names of Shaktis or powers who control the different chakras of our being. So, it depends on how one looks at one's inner being or psyche. These Shaktis are the guardians of the deeper self. If we look inwards, perhaps we can define which aspect is the strongest in us and which the weakest.
I think the spirits you've mentioned are the ones most prevalent in our Indian scriptures and mythology. The above lines should answer your question because whether they be 'dakinis' or 'mohinis', they are all within us. As I once said, 'Every strong woman is a witch'. The dakini persona makes a woman an individual.
It is interesting to note that this is where mythology and psychoanalysis come together. Nietzsche spoke about the "shadow self". In every human being, there resides darker propensities or more sinister desires which can be likened or compared to some malevolent or negative spirits mentioned above. At a certain level, we can, instead of externalising these forces, find them within ourselves.

Eradicating superstition is one of your main goals. Yet, a belief in the paranormal is often considered to be one of the contributing factors to superstition. Your take?
I feel there is no quarrel between science and mysticism. However, what happens in our country today in the name of mysticism or the psychic is either hogwash or exploitation of the gullible. I am trying to fight that and have often got very unpopular because certain lobbies, even in Bollywood, don't see this as being very commercially congenial for them.

How do you balance a belief in the supernatural with the equal importance you give to scepticism (since many believe both are mutually exclusive)?
I don't think they are exclusive. I manage to be both — a sceptic and a believer — and perhaps that is why I am who I am today.
In our country, lobbies with vested interests do not "approve" of such a blend. For them, it often comes down to bad commerce because it takes away the basis of superstition. And superstition, as I have already said, has become big business for those who exploit the gullible and distort the genuine.
I was surprised to read in that news today that some scientists are objecting to something very relevant that Prime Minister Modi said at the recent opening of a Reliance Foundation hospital in Mumbai few days ago. It seems he talked of our heritage, our history and cases from mythology which could have been early indicators of plastic surgery and genetic engineering. I think he has blended ancient phenomenon with modern concepts. This is perfectly logical and plausible. Many in the orthodox world seem to have taken umbrage at this, calling his approach non-scientific. This so-called rationalistic attitude keeps us in the middle ages.

Ostracisation of witchcraft was largely viewed as West-centric till you highlighted the plight of Indian witches.
I think I brought out the academics behind the subject and showed it for what it is — an ancient form of learning which at one time, was a global, much respected subject. After all, how many people are aware that even Japan had its dakini-tens who were considered divine?

Are there specific pockets in India where this problem is most worrisome?
Certain states like Bihar, West Bengal, Chhattisgarh and Jharkhand are the most affected. It is paradoxical that a state like West Bengal, which worships Kali as the mother goddess and is the home of Durga Puja, should be so anti-women. In fact, Wicca takes both Kali and Durga as two manifestations of their patron goddess.

And is there a significant rural/urban divide in the way Indian witches are treated or viewed by society?
I don't think there is a divide, ostensibly. The "rural witch" is deprived of her land while the "urban witch" is harassed by her boss at the office. They are both strong women in their own ways, who are tormented if they stand up for their self-respect and rights. A UPA minister's wife once told me that if I were not good-looking and from a prominent family, I would be burnt to death. There seemed to be regret in her voice.

To what extent would you say witchcraft, especially Dianic Wicca (with its focus on a single Goddess and matriarchy), sowed the seeds of feminism?
Diana has always stood for independent women in Wicca, but we do not differentiate between the various forms of the goddess. The goddess power is one. The manifestations are many. Generally speaking, Wicca stands for the empowerment of a woman who believes in herself, her self-respect and her dignity. Wicca goes back 25,000 years in time. I would say it is the first feminist movement in history because of its worship of the Mother Goddess and the sacred feminine. In the beginning, the male god did not occupy the all-pervasive position which he did later on. He was more in the nature of a consort.

What, in your view, are the biggest misconceptions about witchcraft?
One of the biggest misconceptions is that witchcraft is a negative science. That is untrue because any great power has two sides, whether it is atomic power or Wiccan power. Both can be used for benefit or for harm. Through the ages, Wiccans have been healers and counsellors to kings as well as to the common man. They have been scholars and have delved into nature's secrets. Of course I would not confuse this branch of learning with the candle burning, gimmicky new age movement of today. That is not in the tradition of true Wicca.

Wiccan Brigade also has a paranormal investigations wing. Can you tell us about some of its noteworthy findings?
In our psychic investigations, we blend the scientific with the psychic and work on the theory that science and mysticism are perfectly-aligned schools. We have visited sites like Bhangarh in Rajasthan, BNR Hotel in Puri and an old palace in the districts of Bengal, among others. In all cases, we've captured psychic phenomena on camera. The electronic eye has shown strange ectoplasmic orbs, glowing with a fiery light, responding to thought and in many cases, displaying an intelligence of its own. In our country, not much work has been done in this area. We veer towards the two extremes — either rationalistic pedagogy or blind superstition.
However, in the West, path-breaking work has been done by scientists like Klaus Heinemann (of Nasa, UCLA and Stanford) and Miceal Ledwith, Professor of Systematic Theology and member of the International Theological Commission of the Vatican. They have published books and papers on the orb phenomena and demonstrated how the spirit world can manifest and appear in psychic photography. Our photographs taken on-site at locations like Bhangarh have been startling and revealing. They have been displayed and discussed at major public seminars in Kolkata. We are the first in India to document the orb phenomena.

Apart from being protested against by the likes of (former West Bengal CM) Jyoti Basu, were you frequently shunned by other politicians when you were with the Congress?
If I stepped on anybody's political toes, I was feared and hated. In fact, I relish the thought.

Lastly, what's been your biggest takeaway from Wicca over the decades?
I am the Beloved Witch to thousands who matter to me. And Wicca has made me that.