On his 67th birthday superstar Amitabh Bachchan in conversation with Ayaz Memon

Ayaz: You’ll be completing 40 years in the film industry. I know it’s difficult to sum up this great journey in a few words...
Bachchan: Yes, it’s difficult, but let me try. Forty years is a long journey. A lot of times when I am asked this question, I get confused about what to say and what to leave out. But if I take every decade at one go, then the starting point is definitely with Abbas saab. I got my first role in his film Saat Hindustani. After that a few years went by because I kept on looking for a job here and there. Then there was this chance meeting with Prakash Mehra and Salim-Javed. It was the starting point of a fruitful relationship. I did several films with Prakash Mehra like Hera Pheri, Khoon Paseena, Namak Halal, Muqaddar Ka Sikandar, Sharaabi. At the same time, Salim-Javed wrote some really beautiful stories for me. The films turned out to be great simply because of the power of their writing. The characters they fleshed out for me were excellent because of the way they wrote them, be it Kaala Patthar, Dostana, Zanjeer, Khoon Paseena. During that time I also met Manmohan Desai and got acquainted with his unique way of making films. A lot of films were born with this association – Amar Akbar Anthony, Naseeb…. In this period, there were also Ramesh Sippy and Yash Chopra. With Ramesh, I did Sholay and with Yash I did films like Silsila and Kabhie Kabhie.

When this decade got over, a new generation of film makers came along like Mukul Anand and Tinnu Anand. Mukul Anand had come from the advertising world and had a different way at looking at films and a vivid imagination. All his films were visually appealing. Tinnu Anand was a family friend of mine. His parents and mine used to be friends. Interestingly, in the film Saat Hindustani, the role that I portrayed was initially offered to Tinnu but since he got an offer to become Satyajit Ray’s assistant he left for Kolkata and the role was offered to me. He went on to become a director and he made some really good films in which I worked with him like Shahenshah and Kaaliya.

Then the next generation came along like Adi Chopra and Karan Johar and I got a chance to work in films with them like Mohabbatein and Kabhie Khushi Kabhi Ghum. In between I got interested in television also – like I was offered Kaun Banega Crorepati. I liked the concept and I started the game show in India.

During the nineties, I thought that I had worked enough and I should take a sabbatical. So I didn’t work for about 5-6 years and went abroad. I operated a TV channel called TV Asia in the UK and USA. When I used to go to the US, I would get letters from these large film corporate houses like Sony, 20th Century Fox and I used to wonder what they wanted with an actor from India like me. But when I met them, I was startled with the research they had done about the film and the entertainment industry in India. They also had all the information about me – where I was born, the films I had done…everything. I asked my counsel, who used to help me when I went abroad for concerts and tours about the reason for such a detailed study he told me “Amitabh, I think that you should go back to your country because the Americans are going to come there. And you should be there at that time.” Interestingly, all their letters always had a similar subject: ‘India the new frontier’. I am talking of 1992-1993. They had started preparing back then!

When I came back here, I saw the industry being run like a family business. So I thought why not start a proper corporate company here like they do in the West? I started AB Corp. When we made a presentation about this company to financial experts, they said this is a unique endeavour. When you start a business, the first thing you take into account is how much raw material is required. My company was nothing like that. For the first time valuation was made for two persons – Jaya and me. I was valued at about Rs 15 crore and Jaya at about Rs 3 crore. That became the seed capital for the business with which I started AB Corporation. People asked me ‘Sir, how are you going to return the money?’ I said, ‘The two people that you have put your money on will work and return your money’. So whatever I do that is linked to the entertainment business like endorsements, television shows, concerts - with the exception of films - all my earnings will go to the company and the shareholders.

Then next generation of young and talented filmmakers is Sujoy Ghosh, Shoojit Sircar and I am now working with them. Today the average age on my film sets is roughly around 25 years. Sometimes it feels odd and I ask myself what an old man like me, who is a good 40 years older than them, doing on the sets?’ There’s this thing I admire in the young generation – they have so much josh and confidence. They have so much dynamism! They are leaders and constantly proving something to the world. They work with the idea that ‘nothing is impossible, I can do everything…’ I have never seen such an environment. We used to be very cautious, fearful. These people are fearless. They are constantly driven by the idea to excel. Whatever excellent is happening in this world, they will do it. And then they will do better than that. This is a great thing.

So, in this way, forty years have passed.

Ayaz: It has been a zabardast journey. A query on what you just said just. You spoke about films becoming family businesses. Yours is also regarded as the first family of the Hindi film industry…
Bachchan: That is what the media says. I don’t think that way…

Ayaz: Your family was not associated with films at all. What prompted you to join films?
Bachchan: When I was young, say since the time I went to kindergarten, I had an attraction for the stage. Whenever there was a performance on the stage in the neighbourhood, I always wanted to go and see it. Right from kindergarten, I used to take part in plays. The passion started increasing. Then I passed out of my school in Allahabad and went to a boarding school in Nainital - Sherwood College. There too I took part in plays regularly. After Senior Cambridge (that’s what it was called those days, I don’t know about now because it keeps on changing every year and I can’t keep track these days) – I came to Delhi.

Senior Cambridge would end in November, University started in June-July. We had nothing to do those six-seven months. So students like me kept themselves occupied with plays and games like tennis. I did some plays during that period too. Then university ended and I set out to look for a job. I went to Calcutta and got a job there. In Calcutta, I found out there were a lot of amateur dramatic groups. I joined one and started doing plays with them. This way, the silsila of me taking part in plays was always intact. Then one day I was told about this talent hunt by Filmfare.

The United Producers Forum of which all the leading producers in Bombay were a part and would invite candidates from all over the country to appear for a test. If you passed that practical test and were one of the winners, you would be given a chance to act in a film. Most of the time, people who want to act in films didn't know how to go about it. So I thought that this was a great opportunity for me because the producer’s body was a recognised one.

I applied but they rejected me right in the preliminary rounds. I was very disappointed. But I reasoned that at least I had a job. It was a good one since I used to get a salary of Rs 1200, had a car and a flat too. Life was comfortable. But I left everything because I didn’t like it. I came back home to Delhi. Then my brother, who used to work in a shipping company, got posted to Mumbai. A girl in my brother’s social circle used to work with Abbas saab. I was told that Abbas saab was looking for new face and my brother told him about me, that I was looking for a role.

He sent my photographs to Abbas saab and he liked them, so he asked me to meet him. I came to Mumbai from Delhi. When got to know my surname, he said, ‘`One minute! Are you are Harivanshji’s son? I need to find out first whether you have run away from home.’’ He spoke to my father because he knew him well. He then gave me a role. And that's how I came into films. I felt that working in films was a natural progression. I had worked on the stage and now films were definitely a new avenue for me.

Ayaz: Wasn’t there any pressure from your parents to not join films?
Bachchan: Never. My father never said what I was doing was something wrong. He said if you really want to do it, then please go ahead.

Ayaz: Is it true that you got paid about three thousand for Saat Hindustani?
Bachchan: I got paid about Rs 5000, may be lesser. But it was a strange feeling of elation for me. On the one hand I was working in films for the first time and on top of that was the opportunity of working with Abbas saab. Everybody knew Abbas saab in those days and the films he used to make. He had a column on the last page of Blitz newspaper which I used to read regularly. His way of life, his vision and his philosophy was totally different from the rest. He had a socialist bent of mind and always thought about the aam aadmi. His life was also based on his beliefs and philosophy. He didn't live in luxury and talk about the common man. He lived his philosophy. He was an unbelievable personality and had a modest way of living.

Even when he was making the film, he behaved very normally. He never made anybody feel like a star by giving them special treatment. We had to go to Goa for the shoot and traveled by third class. Wherever we went, we traveled in small public buses. We stayed in government circuit houses, in the same room. There was no electricity and had lanterns with us. We would all lie on the floor - on one side was Abbas saab and on the other, my lightman. I was very influenced by his way of thought – that everybody is equal.

Ayaz: There was a period of struggle after Saat Hindustani…
Bachchan: I feel that everybody who comes to work here goes through that period. We shouldn’t blame anybody for this. You put a lot of money into a film. When you don’t know me, you have never seen my work, how can you suddenly give me a job in your film? This is a process that you'll have to go through. But things get better when you get small roles in other films and people start talking about you. Like after Saat Hindustani, Dutt saab took me in Reshma Aur Shera. I had a small role…of a dumb man. Abbas Saab introduced me to Hrishikesh Mukherjee and Hrishida said, ‘okay, I will give you a role in Anand’. Side-by-side, a film called Parwana was also being made. I worked in it with Om Prakashji. He liked my work and also spoke about me to some more people. In this way, people started to get to know me and one day, Salim-Javed came to me and told me they had a story for me - listen to it and work with us.

Ayaz: Fightbacks has been a recurring thing in your life. Be it your personal life, your career, your health, there is a kind of resilience that defines you.
Bachchan: When people look at it from the outside, it seems I am very resilient or that I fight back but there’s nothing like that (laughs). It’s been God’s grace and nothing more. I have always been optimistic and never allowed myself to get disheartened by any defeat. Carry on with your work and something good will surely happen to you along the way. I have been lucky and God has been kind to me.

Ayaz: The streak of success that started with Zanjeer continued unstoppably for ten years. Now that you have seen both success and failure so closely, what are your learnings?
Bachchan: Babuji taught me one thing when I used to go to school. He told me 'mann ka ho to accha, aur na ho to zyada achha'. I thought, okay, 'mann ka ho to achcha' is fine, but how can something be better 'jo mann ka na ho'? My father then told me that if something doesn’t turn out the way you wanted, then perhaps God wants it that way- so that's why it's even better. There are certain things you and me can't see but He can see it. And He always wants your good, so we need to go on working and leave the rest to Him…

Ayaz: You mentioned earlier that in every decade there were different influences like Manmohan Desai and Hrishikesh Mukherjee. Now, Hrishida used to be very sensitive. There used to be a social message in all his films. Manmohan Desai was very flamboyant and over the top while Prakash Mehra used to straddle between both. How difficult was it for you to adjust?
Bachchan : The maximum films I have done under one director is Hrishida. A lot of people still think I did the most films with Manmohan Desai or Salim-Javed or Ramesh Sippy or Prakash Mehra, but I have done the maximum with Hishikesh Mukherjee.

Ayaz: The kind of films he made aren't seen today…
Amitabh: I agree. There used to be the truth of life and insaaniyat in them. The way people reacted to society was reflected in them and yet these films were entertaining. It is a very difficult thing to do. Because he used to be Bimal Roy’s assistant, Hrishida carried the tradition forward. I sometimes feel bad that people don’t talk about some of his finest movies, they only talk about movies that did well at the box office. They talk about Deewar, Sholay, Amar Akbar Anthony…but the films Hrishida made had depth in them. Us mein kuch baat thi, be it Guddi or Abhimaan, Milee or Chhupke Chhupke, Bemisal, Jurmana…all these films were beautifully made.

I probably didn’t feel as satisfied with anybody as I did with Hrishida. Because he was such a good editor, even before the film even came on the sets, he had actually edited it in his mind. There are times, I used to be baffled.

(Animatedly) "Accha Amit, aise bol ke idhar aise mur jana aur aise khare ho jana".

"Magar Hrishi da".

Only when I used to see the film I realised how intelligent he was and how fast his mind worked. But that period is over. So many filmmakers came during that time who made similar films, but somehow there was something in Hrishida’s films that was not there in anybody else’s.

Ayaz: How do you cope with the present?
Bachchan: There must be a challenge every day, otherwise the artiste in you will die. So many people tell me, ‘you have achieved so much in your life, so sit at home, play with your grandchildren’. But as an artiste I feel there needs to be a fear in me. Like now – I am sitting in front of you, but I know I have to go and rehearse. I will be on TV tomorrow - so what will I say, how will I fare? Tomorrow there's a shoot of another film. I am worried what kind of character it will be, whether I will be able to do it well or not. You should get butterflies in your stomach. I still get them. I feel this is really necessary for an artiste…very necessary

Ayaz: For the creative juices to flow?
Bachchan: Bilkul, bilkul…

Ayaz: There were several eras in the film industry. When you came, an era was coming to an end, like Raj Kapoor, Dilip Kapoor, Dev Anand. How influenced were you by, say Dilip Kumar, who was generally regarded as the ultimate in acting?
Bachchan: He still is… I have been his fan since childhood, even before I joined the film industry. I have always regarded him and Waheedaji as examples for me and continue to do so. I feel the person who can match Dilip Kumar in acting hasn't been born in India yet. Actors who came after Dilip saab are lying if they claim they haven't been influenced by him. There’s no era as such. I still watch Dilipsaab and I still get to learn something from him every day. I never thought I would get the chance to stand with the person I admire so much...and suddenly one day, I am standing with him at a muhurat and working with him in a film. Whatever I had heard and learnt was nothing compared to what I learnt from him.

The way he would on his characters...kitni bariki ke saath har kirdaar par mehnat karte the! The way he used to work even at that age! `‘No, my fingers were not right. The expressions were not right. I didn’t deliver the dialogue right’’. The way he opted for retake after retake till he was satisfied. Forget the fact that the shot was okayed on the first take. But he kept improving on each shot till he was satisfied himself. I got to see all this and still regard him as one of the finest actors. I feel Ganga Jamuna was his best film but it never got an award.

Ayaz: Life is not always fair. But today, the newer generation feels the ultimate in acting is Amitabh Bachchan…
Bachchan: I will tell them that they are mad. They should watch Dilipsaab and other big stars of that era.

Ayaz: This is your modesty….
Bachchan: Actors in those days were so natural. Woh baat nahin rahi. We still try to be natural like them. But with every passing day, we get new technology. Now with the camera and computer graphics, we look better and more beautiful. But look at Dilip saab, look at Raj saab, Motilal, Balraj Sahni – how they used to portray their roles so naturally.

Ayaz: Is there a role you wanted to do but never?
Bachchan: If I get a chance, I would want to do Ganga Jamuna. I used to wonder how Dilip saab, who used to stay in a city like Mumbai, could manage to speak the tongue and portray the body language of people in Uttar Pradesh...and he did it beautifully! Because I also hail from Uttar Pradesh, I could understand the nuance of the role and the character. Here is this man whom I watched in Devdas, Shaheed as a city dweller, and now he becomes a villager from Uttar Pradesh! I was startled.

Ayaz: There so many movies these days which immediately give out ads after their release saying the movie has earned so many crores… even a hundred crores…it has become so money oriented these days. How do you view this trend?
Bachchan: They do it this way today, in my time there used to be ads of silver jubilees, golden jubilees and diamond jubilees. That was the way to tell people that the movie has done so much business. Those days are over but the figures remain. Something has to be advertised so that people come to know a movie has done so well, so people are able to gauge the good business a film has done.

Ayaz: Are you still seeking more creative challenges in your life? You have everything - money, fame….
Bachchan: Ek chunauti pratidin milni chahiye. If there are challenges, we will accept it. I sometimes don’t know what needs to be done but yes, when the challenge comes in front of me, I know what to do. The few people who still want to work with me, if they seek out a new challenge for me, I will be happy.

Ayaz: You will be turning 67 on October 11…
Bachchan: I will be completing 67…

Ayaz: Yet you still feel very young at heart. You are writing a blog, you spoke about young directors… you are completely in sync with the New Age
Bachchan: It’s good that they want to work with me. And there always seem to be a character where I can fit in. So I'll thank them that they still want to work with me.

Ayaz: And there are contemporary roles also – say a Sexy Sam. Around 40 years back we wouldn’t have dreamt of these characters…
Bachchan: That was the way Karan Johar saw the character. Talking about new inventions like computers, mobiles…I don’t know much about them but I still try to learn how to operate them. These days, if you don’t know to operate them, your work doesn’t get done. Imagine how we lived forty years back without computers, without mobiles.

Ayaz: How do you react as a senior actor when you see people fighting in public.
Bachchan: So many people fight in public. We are spoken and written about because we are celebrities and public figures. A little disagreement or fights happen here and there. It’s never of primary importance to me.

Ayaz: You responded very strongly when it came to your family matters. Previously you were never so sensitive….
Bachchan: Family matters?

Ayaz: Say when Abhishek was getting married…
Bachchan: A girl is coming into my home - she is marrying my son and she is a daughter. Now if you write ulta seedha things about my daughter, any father will feel sad. I will try to take it for some time, but when I can’t take it anymore, I feel that being a father, I should give some clarifications and try to put these things to rest. It’s not because of the fact that Aishwarya is my daughter-in-law and Abhishek is my son. I beleive that there are lakhs like me in this city, in this country. It is no mean feat for a girl to leave her home and come into somebody else’s home. She has to leave her ma, papa and say ‘no, now this is my house they are also my parents’. It’s a massive change for a woman. We should admire and appreciate it. I felt the opposite was happening. Aur bahut aisi ashleel batein kahi ja rahin thi jiska mujhe dukh hua. So I thought I must speak up and clarify.

You guys wrote she is a manglik and was married off somewhere else before being married to Abhishek. All lies. If anybody has any proof of such a thing then bring them in front of me. Where is the tree she was married to? Where is that tree? You know everything but where is the proof? You guys got hold of some pandit and he said certain things. I have never asked my daughter-in-law to show her janampatri to me. My son said he loves her and she came and said she loves him. So I said ‘get married’. I have never believed in superstitions, caste, creed. My father never believed in all this. It makes no difference whether the person is a Hindu or a Muslim, a Brahmin or a Kshatriya.

Ayaz: Would you admit probably your biggest mistake was joining politics?
Bachchan: I would not say 'mistake'. Look, we were friends with the family from the time of my parents. Sarojini Naidu praised my dad and she used to like his work. She took him to meet Panditji. Then we became friends with the family, Indiraji and everyone. I thought that since a tragedy had befallen the family, we should stand by them. I was asked to contest the elections, so I contested. I have never been in politics and didn’t know anything it. But because my friend asked me, I did it. After entering politics I found that it’s not about fighting elections but a game. And I was not a good player - I could never play it well. Before I burdened the people who had chosen me to represent them with my own insufficiency, I thought I should leave this game. So I accepted defeat and bowed out.

Ayaz: It might have affected your friendship….
Bachchan: Nothing like that. We were always family friends and will always be.

Ayaz: Do you feel you are very loyal and would also like to get loyalty in return?
Bachchan: If you make a friend just thinking you'll have to give something and will get something in return, then I think you are not doing the right thing. We become friends because we like certain things about each other. When you give it a number or an expression, then that's not friendship. That’s a deal. When I consider somebody a friend, he is a friend. When I met Amar Singh, he was not where he is today. And neither was I. He has now become a member of my family. I consider him my brother and he considers me his. That is it.