Won't put a cap on new dams in Uttarakhand, river-linking should go ahead: Anil Dave

It has been nearly two months since you took charge as the new minister and you have already been through a Parliament session, what do you think are the biggest challenges facing your ministry?

Anil Dave (AD): After completing nearly two months, all the challenges we face that the world faces. The only difference is that of insufficient technology. The technology available to developed country is not available to developing countries otherwise challenges are the same. We will try to synchronize crisis with high end technology so that we can assess the situation and take proper steps.

Your predecessor was blunt about the fact that this ministry will play a big part in easing business and also copped criticism for dilution of several key regulatory policies of the ministry, what do you think of his tenure and will you carry forward the same trend? 

Look, environment protection and development, they run together. Both cannot work in isolation. So, it is the duty of the policy-makers and decision makers and planners that they should balance approach on a case to case basis. One cannot have a blanket rule, and hence it differs from case to case. Both should run hand in hand.

The regulatory regime embedded in the ministry’s functioning, be it clearances, compliances and even the central acts, were asked to be reviewed in the past, under TSR Subramanian committee. You have to take decisions on that committee. Will we see its implementation? 

At present whatever is in front of us, there is no amendment. But one thing is sure. If we will keep on criticising the past, our predecessors, who have done their best, then tomorrow you are also going to be criticized. There is a duration and what I feel is, we should trust our predecessors. Mistakes can happen from anyone. But I am confident that the way we are going ahead, tomorrow we will stand in front of the world society with pride that we mitigate, we adopted necessary measures and at the end we have a better atmosphere her. What happened has happened.

Surely, his decisions are his own but you have to deal with them and continue. In that backdrop, how do you see recommendations of the Subramanian committee? 

Most of the times, the implementation is done in continuum and it is a process. Decisions taken in the past are continued normally but if we it necessary to make changes, we will do that.

COP22 is in two months and there will be a follow up on Paris deal. In that regard, there is talk that we are leveraging our Paris commitments to get a seat in the Nuclear Suppliers Group. What do you have to say on that? 

This is just speculation. If somebody can show me the clause where we have compromised then we can give the answer. Paris had a very good result and the world has reached on some conclusion. In Morocco we have to find the execution model and how Paris commitments can be taken ahead, who will do what, I think we will be able to do it successfully.

So you are saying that our push for NSG membership and outcomes will not have any bearing on our Paris commitment? 

Both the things are different and I don’t know where from this word is coming, but it is not so.

Recently, NGT ordered GMR company to pay a compensation of Rs.9.26 crore to residents of Srinagar, Uttarakhand, for aggravating the impact of 2013 floods and rejected their plea that it was an ‘Act of God’. In this backdrop, what do you have to say on the issue of building new dams, especially when your colleague Uma Bharti has retracted her stand to oppose new dams? 

The view of any ministry of this government is a collective decision, we cannot have different views on issues. Water resources ministry is looking at Ganga, they are in a better position to reply.

But it was your ministry that asked for 13 weeks from Supreme Court to have inter-ministerial consultations on this issue

Yes, from the ecological point of view, from the environment point of view we need this much time to talk to reach conclusion.

Do you think the 1916 pact between British, Ganga Mahasabha and then kingdoms to release only 1000 cusecs of water for unfettered flow of Ganga is practical in today’s age? 

Madan Mohan Malaviya had a vision and whatever accord he signed with the British, it is workable even today. Only thing is, we need a balanced approach. Ganga has a specific impact on complete society and thus we need to look at it from that point of view. Malaviya’s stand is still applicable and crystal clear and necessary change should be made according to today’s time, some points may have to be changed.

Will you move to put a cap on the number of new dams in Uttarakhand? 

We cannot say like that. Every case is different and has different impacts on ecology, society. Just to say we like scrap dams or say double them, this should not be the way.

In your home state, the Ken-Betwa river-linking issue threatens the tigers of Panna, what do you have to say on that? 

Have all tigers of Panna gone? Is that the case?

None were left in 2009. They were reintroduced

Yeh sab chalta rehta hai, its a part of the game. So, the picture is good. We have enough amount of tigers compared to jungle available to us. Every animal has its own territory and more figures will be difficult to manage, accommodate all of them, otherwise they will fight. This Ken-Betwa river link we should do it and have an impact assessment after five years. If it is good, then great, if not they don't go for other linkages.

Is it practical to do that after over Rs.10,000 crores are spent and it has been constructed? 

We are talking on this for 40 years. Let us go ahead with this, millions of man hours have been lost discussing. We should go ahead. We cannot keep talking for years and years.

In July, the ministry issued a clarification that no fine was levied on Adani group for environmental damage to marine ecology in Mundra but said that stringent action will be taken for environment restoration 

It was baseless to say that we had ever fined them Rs.200 crore and then retracted the decision. That entire area will now come into CRZ and those who are working there, they should act for betterment of the coastline and society. We will come out and make sure that big partners who are working there should work for conservation of coastline.

Earlier this week, the sub-group of Narmada Control Authority decided to postpone filling up Sardar Sarovar Dam to its maximum height, what do you have to say on that?

Who said so? This was not discussed.

We had reported on this issue

It is not so, it was not discussed. These were not the issues and I cannot say more. The committee is still to think more on the subject, so let the matter come before me. Just on speculation, on committee or sub-committee’s meeting, a minister cannot reply.

But the sub-group has been mandated by Supreme Court to recommend clearance for increasing height of dam and the filling up of water. 

We know very well how to rule the country, that is what I can say. We are doing it successfully with good governance, all the recommendations and thoughts are welcome.

This week, the Prime Minister inaugurated the SAUNI Yojana to provide Narmada’s excess water for Saurashtra. But experts have said that water availability and power use are concerns. Some have even said that difficulty in land acquisition for Narmada link canals necessitated this project

There is excess water and that should be used. Those who talk and think otherwise are metropolitan intellectuals who sit in metro cities like Mumbai, Delhi, Chennai who think they are masters of all things. But ground situation is different, farmers need water for two cycles of cropping.

Your oversaw passage of CAMPA Bill in Parliament. But there have been cases where existing community forests have been used for compensatory afforestation. How will MoEF tackle this? 

 The rules are under formation. We will make it in such a way that there is a minimum error on the ground. I think the entire House passed the Bill and credit goes to them. Within a month or two, we will finalize the Rules and we will necessary safeguards in places but eventually state governments are more responsible to avoid such situations.

Farmer groups and civil society have asked questions regarding the actual yield benefit of genetically modified Mustard

It is the opinion of these people and they may have to come this conclusion from their observations and experience or studies. When we reach the final stages, at that time it is appropriate for me to intervene

This is the first GM food crop that will be cultivated if your ministry clears it, do you think India is ready for it and we have we scrutinized health impacts? 

It is like medicines. If we are consuming something then we have to put in place necessary safety regulations which exist for medicines. Human life is more important and thus we are looking at these safeguards.

This year, till September, we have already recorded more tiger mortalities than last year. Why are investigations into tiger deaths so opaque?

Any death, whether it is of humans or animals has to be taken seriously. There are no two ways. Investigations should be done seriously.

But in reality, months pass after tiger deaths but details are not put out in public domain 

It is the backlog and junk of 65 years, at least 6-7 years will be required. It has only been 2 years.

A key global issue is regarding melting of glaciers in India. Does the ministry and Centre have accurate data on melting rate of glaciers? 

Every year monitoring exists. But we do need better monitoring, an observatory for 24x7, 365 days monitoring. Because in Himalayas, the way the glaciers are melting, it is not only because of India but impacts of global changes. Here, we want to assess the situation round the clock and we are thinking in that direction. The process in on how to do it and what technology to use, the seasons to monitor, coming together with neighbouring states.

 We also have certain zones where militarization has restricted access to glaciers and these zones are protected under Official Secrets Act. How can we monitor glaciers in these zones? 

AD: When all concerned departments take them in confidence and since we are eventually doing this for the country, there will be no problem.